Pogovor o predlogi:Infopolje Naselje v Sloveniji

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Problem[uredi kodo]

Nekaj je zelo narobe s tole predlogo, sploh s tistim flourescentno zelenim delom! --Pasji pozdrav 10:37, 21 december 2006 (CET)

Naslov infopolja[uredi kodo]

Ker je predloga {{Naselje}} prirejena za slovenska naselja, predlagam preimenovanje v 'Infopolje Slovensko naselje'. Za druga naselja je namreč edino ustrezno infopolje en:Template:Infobox Settlement, pri nas še pod naslovom {{Infopolje Mesto}}. --Eleassar pogovor 23:29, 16 junij 2007 (CEST)

Ja lahko, edino to pomeni masovno spreminjanje z AWBjem. --Slodave 07:04, 17 junij 2007 (CEST)

To lahko uredi Miha ali kdo drug z botom. --Eleassar pogovor 21:37, 21 junij 2007 (CEST)

Hm, če bi že morali, za kar sicer ni potrebe, je PMM pravilno {{Naselje v Sloveniji}}... --Andrejj 08:47, 7. julij 2007 (CEST)[odgovori]
Urejeno: {{Infopolje Naselje v Sloveniji}}. --Eleassar pogovor 14:25, 11. julij 2007 (CEST)[odgovori]

Parametri za zemljevide[uredi kodo]

PMM bi bilo bolje kot dodajati parametre za posamezne zemljevide dodati en sam parameter za prikaz geografske širine in dolžine, ki bi se povezoval na wikiseznam relevantnih zemljevidov Slovenije. Tako kot se npr. povezuje pri {{Infopolje Mesto}} (glej npr. članek Adis Abeba) ali pa se npr. samodejno poveže ISBN-številka s stranjo Wikipedija:Viri knjig (glej npr. Albert Speer). --Eleassar pogovor 13:01, 6. julij 2007 (CEST)[odgovori]

Vrjetno bi bilo to res najbolje, vendar se sam zaenkrat ne nameravam ukvarjati s tem, zaenkrat je moj cilj popisati vsa slovenska naselja. Bi blo pa smiselno razviti arhitektoro predloge v tej smeri (čeprav ne smemo zanemariti dejstva, da ima večina naselij predlogo za zemljevid na najdi.si, ki ne temelji na koordinatah).--Slodave 14:38, 6. julij 2007 (CEST)[odgovori]

Zdi se mi koristno, da bi infopolje vsaj dopolnili s podatkom o geografski širini in dolžini, povezanim na tako stran. Ali potrebujemo tudi parametre za posamezne zemljevide in za katere, se že lahko pozneje dogovorimo; če zemljevid najdi.si ne podpira koordinat, bi pmm zmogli tudi brez njega, dokler ga ne popravijo. --Eleassar pogovor 12:58, 25. julij 2007 (CEST)[odgovori]

Slika[uredi kodo]

Bi bilo možno dodat vrstico image_caption za opis slike? Včasih prav pride. --Yerpo 08:26, 17. oktober 2007 (CEST)[odgovori]

Saj že obstaja parameter caption. --Eleassar pogovor 10:31, 17. oktober 2007 (CEST)[odgovori]
A, to sem pa spregledal. Sem samo mislil da ga ni ker image_caption ni delal. Hvala. --Yerpo 14:46, 17. oktober 2007 (CEST)[odgovori]

Pošta[uredi kodo]

Pri nekaterih naseljih je potrebno popraviti nazive pošte (zaradi razločitve), a predloga ne prepozna npr. Nova vas, Bloke|Nova vas, ampak prikaže kot Nova vas, Bloke. lP, --Klemen »Kocjo« Kocjančič (Pog. - Talk) 19:02, 17. januar 2009 (CET)[odgovori]

Isti problem je pri mestnih občinah, saj predloga ne sprejema možnosti vpisa mestne občine, ampak se mora uporabljati preusmeritev iz občine na mestno občino. LP, --Klemen »Kocjo« Kocjančič (Pog. - Talk) 16:14, 13. februar 2011 (CET)[odgovori]
V predlogah je potrebno namesto | uporabiti {{!}}. --Sporti 16:16, 13. februar 2011 (CET)[odgovori]

Dvojezičnost[uredi kodo]

Nekatera naselja potrebujejo v infopolju tudi drugojezično ime. --Andrejj (pogovor) 15:25, 27. oktober 2014 (CET)[odgovori]

Lahko dodam še eno ime, ki se bo preslikalo v Infopolje Naselje v |native_name= (»zgodovinsko ime« se že preslika v | other_name=). Imaš slovenski predlog za ime parametra? --Pinky sl (pogovor) 15:39, 27. oktober 2014 (CET)[odgovori]

tujejezično ime!? dvojezično ime? --Andrejj (pogovor) 15:55, 27. oktober 2014 (CET)[odgovori]

Kaj pa, če bi dali kar »drugo ime« in bi bil parameter namenjen tudi za imena drugačnega tipa? --Pinky sl (pogovor) 17:57, 27. oktober 2014 (CET)[odgovori]

Tudi v redu, trojezičnih pa tu okrog ni prav dosti ... --Andrejj (pogovor) 21:48, 27. oktober 2014 (CET)[odgovori]

DaD Opravljeno .. dodan je parameter |drugo ime=, ki se ga lahko uporabi tudi za dvojezično ime. Izpiše se takoj pod glavnim imenom (glej Predloga:Infopolje Naselje v Sloveniji/testniprimeri#Testni primer Novo mesto). --Pinky sl (pogovor) 19:06, 28. oktober 2014 (CET)[odgovori]

Hvala za ekspeditivnost!--Andrejj (pogovor) 20:17, 28. oktober 2014 (CET)[odgovori]

Vejica[uredi kodo]

@Pinky sl: Pozdravljena, imam eno majhno vprašanje. Zakaj je v parametru Gostota prebivalstva vejica v enoti. Npr. pri Kopru to izgleda:
Gostota prebivalstva: 2.000 preb,/km2
Verjetno je ta vejica nepotrebna? Ali jaz ta podatek narobe tolmačim. Hvala za odgovor. --A09090091 (pogovor) 21:08, 14. januar 2021 (CET)[odgovori]

Pa še morda en predlog. Bi se dalo narediti, da bi bila poštna številka napisana krepko in ne ime naselja? Hvala. LP, --A09090091 (pogovor) 14:02, 15. januar 2021 (CET)[odgovori]
{{Infopolje Naselje}} ... vejica popravljena, poštna številka pa ni napisana krepko. --Pinky sl (pogovor) 16:36, 15. januar 2021 (CET)[odgovori]
@Pinky sl: Corazón.svg En wiki Hvala. Upam, da te nisem preveč zaposlil s tem. --A09090091 (pogovor) 16:43, 15. januar 2021 (CET)[odgovori]
Pošta je napisana krepko, kjer povezava kaže sama nase - npr. 1290 Grosuplje, 8330 Metlika. —Upwinxp 17:28, 15. januar 2021 (CET)[odgovori]
A ne bi bilo boljše, če bi bila poštna številka v boldu in kraj normalno. --A09090091 (pogovor) 17:31, 15. januar 2021 (CET)[odgovori]
Mišljeno je, da ni odebeljeno ne eno ne drugo, da pa je ime pošte povezava. Če je ime pošte enako imenu članka, pa povezava sama nase postane odebeljena (kot če bi naredil Pogovor o predlogi:Infopolje Naselje v Sloveniji). —Upwinxp 17:36, 15. januar 2021 (CET)[odgovori]
Aha, ok, hvala za pojasnitev. --A09090091 (pogovor) 17:39, 15. januar 2021 (CET)[odgovori]

Number of inhabitants[uredi kodo]

Hello all,

Sorry for writing in English. On the Dutch Wikipedia, there is a call to update the population of the Slovenian communities, as many gave numbers from 2002. On the many Wikipedias, we have articles about all Slovenian communitiesmunicipalities (Občines). The Slovenian Statistični urad does provide numbers of inhabitants for these communities from 2008 on. These can be found at their site. I have taken the liberty to read this data and bring them to Wikidata, like here for Občina Žužemberk. Bringing the data to Wikidata once and using it for articles (using a LUA-module) will help all Wikipedias to bring the most recent information. I would be happy if someone could state that my interpretation of the data is right, so I can bring the information of previous years to Wikidata as well, see for instance these changes, resulting in this part of the item in Wikidata.

If the data are fine, I will write a LUA module and make that available for other Wikipedia's, so the most recent number can be retrieved, including a note for the source, both from the article text and the infobox. This will help many Wikipedias and Wikimedians from doing tedious work like this, although you have SportiBot doing it on the Slovenian Wikipedia. The English (2002) and German (2008) Wikipedia can be updated by doing so, and discrepancies like in the Esparanto articles (showing number of 2019 in the infobox and of 2018 in the first paragraph) can be prevented. Having these numbers over a longer period can eventually be used to provide graphs showing the growth and decline of the population over time.

But first things first: am I handling the data in a correct way? Thanks for your reaction, RonnieV (pogovor) 12:47, 19. april 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]

@RonnieV: Speaking of Slovene municipalities (BTW, this is English word for Občina (Občine)), you also have data from gis.stat. It's stage representation of various data variables in Slovenia from 2005 on. Level of precision can be set to statistical regions, municipalities, community or grid of 10x10 km or smaller. You can download csv/shp file, for parsing I think csv is more feasible (simplicity looking). There are many data filters (from criminal rates to economical variables), sadly not all are updated for last year. For variable selection, click hamburger in top left corner. And I see problems, you have on community portal on nlwiki. In bottom left corner, there is translate-content buttton (English only). Link for all above in English is https://gis.stat.si/#lang=enHope this helps, stay safe and happy scrapping, A09090091|(pogovor) 13:55, 19. april 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]
It would be great, especially if you could include settlements as well ([1]). --Sporti (pogovor) 14:03, 19. april 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]
A09090091, Thanks for your correction and extra information. gis.stat seems to be also from the Slovenian Statistični urad, so they provide the same information on different levels. I prefer the csv-version and a level that is supported by our structure on Wikidata (settlements, municipalities,...).
Sporti, It is not a big problem to read and handle that level information as well. The biggest challenge will be to distinguish the settlements which share a name, like Znojile. I see Statistični urad uses ids for entities, like:
"Sex - TOTAL";"001 AJDOVŠČINA";19418
"Sex - TOTAL";"001001 Ajdovščina";6843
"Sex - TOTAL";"001002 Batuje";369
I don't seem to find the 043112 (or 043) for Znojile, Kamnik on that page or on Q8073142. Having an ID in Wikidata would make it easier to get directly to a specific item on Wikidata. Would it be an idea to propose that number as a (new) property for Wikidata?
I hope to add the remaining years to Wikidata later today, and hope to find a solution for some municipalities I missed (like Ankaran/Ancarano), as these should be found under a specific name (one of both). Writing the module will be a nice thing in the next days, I might base it on this one, getting the most recent number of voyagers from a Belgian railway station. As we now need only one number to get from Wikidata, it will be easier to realise.
Thanks for your support and stay safe, RonnieV (pogovor) 18:22, 19. april 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]
@RonnieV: It was my pleasure to help you. Sadly I am not fluent in lua at all, but if you need help with python, you can reach out for me. Oh, and IDs are build out of municipality ID (Ajdovščina municipality is 001) and settlement ID (their alphabeticall order). We can make these sort of predicitions with SPARQL from Wikidata (under condition, that all municipalities are present) and then sort them alphabetically and then merge/concatenate these with ID of their municipality. What about proposing expansion to series ordinal? I may be wrong. With regards, A09090091|(pogovor) 18:33, 19. april 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]
@A09090091, the Wikidata-part is handled. Without writing any LUA-code myself, {{#invoke:wd|property|qualifier|references|normal+|P1082|P585}} should give the number of inhabitants (P1082) on a page of a municipality, the date (P585) and the source (references), using the best ranked (preferred) of, if missing, one of the normal values (normal+). It can be tested on the page of a municipality or by adding the Q-number of the municipality, like {{#invoke:wd|property|qualifier|references|normal+|Q394087|P1082|P585}}. Unfortunately, the code of sl:Modul:Wd of the Slovenian Wiki is a bit out of date: the date is not shown. Please compare Uporabnik:RonnieV/Slovenië, nl:Gebruiker:RonnieV/Slovenië and en:User:RonnieV/Slovenië for different output.
An option would be to update Modul:Wd. I don't feel free to do so on your Wikipedia, not knowing if there are special pages I could/should check doing so. If you feel safe updating the module, we can get the number of inhabitants directly from Wikidata, so updating if new data come available would require a run at Wikidata and no longer on all different pages. Information will be shared with, among others, the Dutch Wikipedia and all others that want to use this. How do you feel about the module? With regards, RonnieV (pogovor) 00:35, 23. april 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]
Modul:Wd is used on may pages, an update is not easy task. I created Modul:Wd/peskovnik (sandbox version). You can work with that - for now. The problem is when we use singular, dual, plural, dates in differnt format (access-date, .....)
  • sandbox version: "Inhabitants of municipality Žiri from Wikidata, with date and source: 4.952 (1. julij 2020)[1]" --Pinky sl (pogovor) 13:42, 23. april 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]
Thanks, @Pinky sl, that seems to do the trick for showing the date in one call.
@A09090091, there seem to be some gaps in the numbers, see for instance the Kamnik municipality. But I will find a way to point to the right place for adding the information at that level too. (inhabitants, males, females, data, source) First thing to do is to add the numbers for females and males for the dates already provided, so Predloga:Občina v Sloveniji could be changed to use the data from Wikidata for the 'Prebivalcev' (population). On my Uporabnik page, I added the calls to the peskovnik-modul to show the differences and a graph. I seem to have problems with the min and max value on the y-axis, it is no use to show a large empty part from 0 to 4500 (Žiri), with a line that only moves a bit in the upper part of it. With regards, RonnieV (pogovor) 01:08, 24. april 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]
@RonnieV: Maybe I have missed something, but I assume that the problem is in sorting. Our alphabet is different from english alphabet and sibilants (čšž) are not on the end. Just putting in just for case: ABCČDEFGHIJKLMNOPRSŠTUVZŽ. I am not local from Kamnik, but I think there were no derankings of villages/cities to lowr ranks, however I do remember quite a few example of promotion from hamlet/village to village/small town (Petelinje near Pivka comes first to my mind, which expanded alot). If you are not sure, which (if some communities are missing) you can check them on thier municipality pages (link for Kamnik is Krajevne skupnosti | Občina Kamnik and this one has population too). I found this pdf in Slovene that also has some informations about census surveys for SFRY era too. Mainly is a statistical report of municipalities/towns, made back in 2003, but is also a timeback machine for census results from the past. Link: Microsoft Word - mestna naselja 2003.doc (stat.si). I don't know how much of this is useful, but I hope it helps. Yours sincerely, A09090091|(pogovor) 18:37, 24. april 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]
@[[A09090091, When I have a look at the list of settlements of Kamnik (043), I miss numbers like 043004, 043013, 043025, 043027, 043028... Also, the highest number is 043116, suggesting there should be 116 settlements. The relevant shows 102 settlements, the same number of settlements I find in the export. It would be great to have a property (comparable to P4759) that would link 043001 directly to Q4881754, so 'Bela' could be combined with Bela, Kamnik and not be confused with Bela, Ajdovščina (both have the label 'Bela' in the export). I just ran into [[:d:Q3503153#P300|this property, that might help me, in combination with d:Q4881754#P131, to make a good list for the 6251 municipalities and settlements, giving me the Q-number from Wikidata and the number from SiStat. That would be a great help for future imports. Work to do ;) Yours sincerely, RonnieV (pogovor) 00:40, 29. april 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]
@RonnieV: What about Seznam naselij v Sloveniji (A)? There are 25 lists of comunities across Slovenia, sorted by their alphabetical order. Parsing would be needed, tho. My plan is following: parse all lists, make a dictionary with lists for keys and then sort these keys. Then apply IDs across those (based on municipality and their alphabetic order inside of municipality). This is my last guess, sadly I am out of ideas... A09090091|(pogovor) 10:56, 29. april 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]
  1. ""Prebivalstvo po starosti in spolu, občine, Slovenija, polletno"". Statistični urad Republike Slovenije. Pridobljeno dne 18. april 2021.
DaD Opravljeno Modul:Wd updated to most recent :en version. --Pinky sl (pogovor) 18:14, 24. april 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]
Hvala, Pinky sl. RonnieV (pogovor) 00:40, 29. april 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]

With the list of settlements from SiStat and a list of settlements and municipalities retrieved from Wikidata, I managed to match almost all places. Missing are the following ones:

  • 025019 Tolsti Vrh p. R. na K. - del (DRAVOGRAD)
  • 050036 Jelarji (KOPER)
  • 050062 Pisari (KOPER)
  • 084058 Sveta Gora (NOVA GORICA)
  • 103024 Tolsti Vrh p. R. Na K. - del (Ravne na Koroškem)
  • 104012 Dane (RIBNICA)
  • 109001 Blatnik pri Črmošnjicah (SEMIč)
  • 129012 Prapretno pri Hrastniku - del (TRBOVLJE)
  • 142027 Konjšica - del (ZAGORJE OB SAVI)
  • 194011 Gradišče-K. o. Grad. in Polj. (ŠMARTNO PRI LITIJI)
  • 194037 Razbore-K. o. Poljane - del (ŠMARTNO PRI LITIJI)

Help linking these settlements to something in Wikidata or in here in Wikipedia would be appreciated.

Currently, I am importing the data to Wikidata, with changes like this. Just 5600 settlements to go. I will keep the list with settlement names, SiStat numbers, QID's and municipality information for future imports. I might export it and save it some in my space on this Wikipedia. The settlement information is updated yearly by SiStat, the municipality information half yearly, so we can update it and provide this information to all Wikipedia's (and to other users of Wikidata). I will recheck my scripts and other information and share these on Github, so if I fail to upgrade the information, others can do this as well.

The next step is to show this information in articles, changing {{Infopolje Naselje v Sloveniji}} to use Wikidata for the number of inhabitants : 'prebivalstvo' and 'prebivalstvo_od' ('population_total' and 'population_as_of'). We can add properties for female and male population, with 'as_of' for the date. As shown on Uporabnik:RonnieV/Slovenië, there are several ways to use the information both in Infopolje and in text. Best, RonnieV (pogovor) 17:36, 3. maj 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]

RonnieV thanks for helping us. You can play with {{Infopolje Naselje v Sloveniji/peskovnik}} (sandbox) - I included Wikidata for the number of inhabitants. |prebivalstvo= (number of inhabitansts) must contain just one number. If we want to include female and male population, we must add new parameters and also change infobox {{Infopolje Naselje}}. I’m not too excited about this. --Pinky sl (pogovor) 18:41, 3. maj 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]
Pinky sl, thanks for making this test infobox. I am running into a problem, I don't understand. The values are all available in Wikidata, and results are used in the Dutch Wikipedia, using this infobox. Wd is called for the parameters 'inwoners' (number of inhabitants) and 'meetjaar' (census). See e.g. Dobrovo. When I use the same call to modul:wd in {{Infopolje Naselje v Sloveniji/peskovnik}}, I get the warning 'Opozorilo: Strani, ki uporabljajo Predloga:Infopolje Naselje z neznanimi parametri "prebivalstvo_footnotes" (to sporočilo se prikaže le v predogledu).' Does it say that the name of the parameter is not correct or that I did not provide a (required) value? I placed a direct call to Modul:Wd in the first chapter of the page and that does show values. But calling them to fill in the parameter does seem to give a value. Do you have a clue, can you help me by explaining the meaning/reason of the warning? Thanks, RonnieV (pogovor) 02:33, 7. maj 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]
RonnieV entry parameters for {{infopolje Naselje}} ware incorrect. And |population_total= must contain just one number (without referencing). In "infopolje Naselje" population_total is used for population density calculation. --Pinky sl (pogovor) 13:17, 7. maj 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]
Pinky sl, thanks, that does the trick! I tested it on the page of Dobrovo, replacing the infobox with the peskovnik one, and it does give the desired results: population, date, reverence and average population/km². Can I leave it to you, the Slovenian community, to implement this in the official infobox? I will work with the other Wikipedia to see if they want to implement this as well.
On pages like Ljubljana, currently an other infobox is used {{Infopolje Naselje}}. We might put it there with some if-statement, allowing the Wikipdata or the manual input to be preferred. Giving Wikipedia the preferred option, it is harder to update it local, but we will benefit from improvements in Wikidata. I leave that decision up to you. Best, RonnieV (pogovor) 11:25, 8. maj 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]
I am really happy to see this wikidata import system working. If we are going to vote for semi-auto or auto import I would vote for automatic one; because no one or very few actually update numbers in infoboxes. And also one thing less to do in a long list of "to-do's". A09090091|(pogovor) 11:32, 8. maj 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]

Thanks RonnieV ... I will update infoboxes (for settlement {{Infopolje Naselje v Sloveniji}} and municipalities {{Občina v Sloveniji}} & and later meta template {{Infobox settlement}}) and then deleted inhabitants data parameters from our infoboxes with bot. I will add local parameters active (just in case). --Pinky sl (pogovor) 17:15, 8. maj 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]

Infopolje posodobljeno[uredi kodo]

Information icon.svg Info: - Infopolje je popravljeno in sedaj bere podatke o prebivalstvu iz wd. Predlagam, da se v vseh člankih v Kategorija:Članki o slovenskih naseljih z lokalno in wd vnesenim prebivalstvom izbriše parametre |prebivalstvo=xx, |prebivalstvo_od=yy in |prebivalstvo_footnotes=zzzzzz --Pinky sl (pogovor) 18:34, 30. julij 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]

Symbol support vote.svg Za Upam, da ne bo preveč vandalizmov na Wikipodatkih. Bi mogoče kot za prebivalstvo storili posodobitev za povprečno plačo za občine? v naseljih jih pa izpraznili? Zdi se mi, da tolarji že dolgo niso več v uporabi, sploh niso kredibilna metrika ter nekatere občine so se industrijsko povzpele. A09090091|(pogovor) 18:59, 30. julij 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]
  • {{Infopolje Občina v Sloveniji}} je v postopku prenove. Se strinjam, da so tam nekateri podatki, ki bi jih jaz izbrisala iz infopolja oz. bi nekdo moral najnovejše prenesti v Wikipodatke (o plači, študentih, povprečni starosti, delovno aktivnih, stanovanjske površine) --Pinky sl (pogovor) 17:46, 31. julij 2021 (CEST)[odgovori]